Do we really need submarines and fighter jets like Sukhoi?

 The 18 units of Sukhoi SU-30MKM for Malaysia were modified from the Sukhoi SU-30MKI and SU-30MKshown here.

Recently, Opposition Leader Lim Kit Siang raised a question in Parliament over the USD 100 million commission paid to Perimekar, a company said to be owned by Abdul Razak Baginda. The commission was paid by Amaris, a JV company owned by the French and Spanish submarine builders.Malaysian taxpayers have paid more than RM4 billion to purchase 3 submarines from Amaris.

The question asked by some Malaysians was whether we really need these submarines in the first place?

Same questions could be asked on the purchase of 18 Sukhois at USD 900 million, the new RM400 million Istana Negara, the second Penang bridge, the RM300 million annual Monsoon Cup and many other mega projects initiated by PM Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.

I am reproducing an old article written in 2003 on the subject of Sukhoi here to refresh our memory

Media statement by Ronnie Liu Tian Khiew, DAP national publicity secretary on Wednesday, 29 October 2003 in Petaling JayaNajib has put the cost of astronaut program at only RM95 million. But is he telling the truth? Malaysia plans to put its first person into space by 2005 aboard a Russian spacecraft as part of a defense deal it struck with Moscow earlier this year. Defense Minister Najib Razak said two Malaysians would be picked by Russian experts to undergo training with that country’s space program starting in 2004.  

The better of the two trainees would eventually join two Russian cosmonauts on a Soyuz rocket that would rendezvous with the international space station.  Malaysian participation in the Russian program was part of a US$900 million deal for
Malaysia to buy 18 Russian-made Sukhoi SU-30 MKM fighter jets, which was signed during a visit in May 2003 by Russian President Vladimir Putin.
 According to Alexey Fedorov, president of Irkut Corporation, the manufacturers of SU series of aircraft, Russia and India will work together to produce the jet fighters for Malaysia.The Sukhoi SU-30 MKM that has been offered to Malaysia is not yet in service anywhere in the world. It is a derivative of the SU-30 MKI which has been offered to
India. It is supposed to have components from Israel, Europe, Russia and
India.

It is learnt that Malaysia wants the Israeli component to be replaced and other new components added. As a result, each will now cost US10 million more than the original price of about US40 million. The cost of buying 18 Sukhoi SU-30 MKM jet fighters is now fixed at US900 million. This works out to US 50 million each. In other words, Malaysian taxpayers have to pay about US 180 million or RM 684 million in extra (1
US $=3.8 RM) for the 18 jet fighters.
It is therefore questionable for Najib to claim that the astronaut program only cost Malaysia  RM95 million. He needs to give Malaysians a more convincing story.

The wisdom of buying the untested jet fighters is also questionable. This type of jet fighters will not be inducted into the Russian Air Force and as the number ordered by Malaysia is limited, Malaysia is expected to face problems of getting spare parts.At the end of the day, is sending a “tumpanaut” to the space with the help of the Russian spaceship a priority for Malaysia?/ Ronnie Liu Tian Khiew

Read on if you have time… Wanted:
Malaysia seeks cosmonaut
Friday, October 17, 2003 Posted: 1417 GMT (10:17 PM HKT) 

  The lucky applicant will travel to the International Space Station aboard a Soyuz spacecraft like the one above.  

——————————————————————————– Story Tools           

——————————————————————————– RELATED NASA: International Space Station    

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — As China counted down to the launch of its first manned space mission, Malaysia on Tuesday invited applications for the job of cosmonaut.  

The small Southeast Asian country plans to put its first person into space by 2005 aboard a Russian spacecraft as part of a defense deal it struck with Moscow earlier this year.  Defense Minister Najib Razak said two Malaysians would be picked by Russian experts to undergo training with that country’s space program starting in 2004, the Bernama national news agency reported.  

The best of the two trainees would eventually join two Russian cosmonauts on a Soyuz rocket that would rendezvous with the international space station, Najib said.  “We will select anyone, irrespective of gender, who fits the bill,” Najib was quoted as saying in the New Straits Times newspaper. “We hope the space program will spur more Malaysians to pursue a career in space studies and encourage local scientific and space industries.”  

Malaysian participation in the Russian program was part of a US$900 million deal for
Malaysia to buy 18 Russian-made Sukhoi Su-30 MKM fighter jets, which was signed during a visit in May by Russian President Vladimir Putin.
 India, Russia to make fighter variant for
Malaysia
 

By Sandeep Dikshit  

NEW DELHI APRIL 20. In a move of far-reaching consequence, India and Russia will work together to produce a variant of the state-of-the art Su-30 MK `I’ fighter jet for
Malaysia.
 

With India set to manufacture 140 SU-30 MK `I’ aircraft in India under Russian licence, the acquisition of similar aircraft by Malaysia can affect the region’s security balance. The presence of Su-30 jets by India and Malaysia can to some extent neutralise the Chinese numerical lead in fighter aircraft in the region.China has a large fleet of the less superior Su-27 fighter jets and is expected to acquire a Su-30 variant by 2005.  According to Alexey Fedorov, president of Irkut Corporation, the manufacturers of Su series of aircraft, his company is well disposed towards the Indian strategy of mastering the full cycle of the creation of an aircraft, right from research and production to upgrades. Mr. Fedorov’s observations have aroused much interest here, especially in view of his visit to India next week to participate in a seminar on the new challenges and opportunities in Indian and Russian defence industries.  

Irkut is refashioning itself because of the global trend towards consolidations. Today, the trend is to form four or five aerospace corporations on a global scale, which will tend to divide among themselves the major markets of military and civil aviation equipment.
India figures prominently in this strategy.
 According to Mr. Fedorov, Irkut, engaged in many countries of South-East Asia and the Asian Pacific region, is already feeling the synergetic effect of the Russian-Indian interaction. “I mean our participation in the Malaysian tender,” he underlined, adding that the Su-30 MKM offered to Malaysia is basically a derivative of Su-30 MKI. “The positive mood of Malaysia with regard to Su-30 MKM aircraft in many respects stems from the successful implementation of the MKI project and the practical result achieved by the Russian and Indian participants in the project.”  

During the course of talks held with Malaysian officials, Irkut was busy exploring the possibility of setting up a regional centre for integrated logistical support for Su-30 MKI in India. The Sukhoi chief was confident that in future Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will be active in cooperating with the Malaysian Air Force in providing their Sukhoi fleet with spares and technical service.  “Convergence and mutual interpenetration of Russian and Indian high-tech complexes must follow the chosen logic of further augmentation and expansion of cooperation between the leading aircraft manufacturing corporations. Indo-Russia pact to sell Sukhois to Malaysia 

PTI[ SATURDAY, APRIL 20, 2002 05:15:52 PM ] NEW DELHI: Russia wants India to participate in the development of Sukhoi aircraft for the Royal Malaysian Air Force as the fighter jet sought by Kuala Lumpur would be a derivative of SU-30 MKI, which are being operated by the Indian Air Force.  Russia‘s Irkut Corporation, which has signed an MoU with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) for licensed manufacture of 140 SU-30 MKI aircraft in India, has sought HAL’s cooperation in the process of cornering international market for this aircraft, according to Alexey Fedorov, president of the Corporation.  

The Irkut company, which is already in talks with the Malaysian airforce on the issue, has suggested that a “regional centre for integrated logistical support” for SU-30 MKI fighter jets be set up in India.  The Sukhoi chief, who will arrive in India early next week to participate in a seminar on Indo-Russian military industrial cooperation, recently said in Moscow “there is no doubt that in future HAL will be active to cooperate with the Royal Malaysian Air Force to provide their fleet of Sukhoi aircraft with spares and technical service”.  

Stating that SU-30 MKM offered to Malaysia was basically a derivative of SU-30 MKI, Fedorov said “the positive mood of Malaysia with regard to SU-30 MKM aircraft in many respects stems from the successful implementation of the MKI project and the practical result achieved by the Russian and Indian participants in the project”.  The Sukhoi chief, who was speaking to an Indian delegation in Moscow last week, also said that the Russian company was “very busy exploring possibilities” for Malaysia to use the regional centre of integrated logistical support for SU-30 MKI aircraft “which is to be set up in India”.  

He told the high-level Indian team that the only way out was to form “a joint Russian-Indian aircraft manufacturing sector capable of preserving its independence by way of consolidating efforts and funds in the face of transatlantic domination”.  “Convergence and mutual interpenetration of Russian and Indian high-tech complexes must follow the chosen logic of further augmentation and expansion of cooperation between the leading aircraft manufacturing coroporations” of the two nations, Fedorov added.  

He also referred to the joint implementation of the largest project for production of 165 MiG-27 ML fighter bombers, called ‘Bahadur’, at HAL facilities. These aircraft now form the basis of the IAF’s striking force.     

22 Responses to “Do we really need submarines and fighter jets like Sukhoi?”

  1. little points and begging your pardon at jelas.info Says:

    […] The PM apparently says “what the hell are you talking about?” twice. Uncharacteristically uncouth? Have a quick look at Ronnie Liu’s analysis of our extravagant defence (and other) spendings. That’s the thing about buying weapons – the more money you pour into ‘em, the more you itch to use ‘em. Think America. Fresh of Pinochet’s death, another mega bad guy is convicted in Ethiopia. Maybe ‘convicted’ ala Saddam is more appropriate, but hopefully this is at least one of many small steps for justice and an end to international impunity. […]

  2. sampalee Says:

    The west will only sell us OBSELETE WEAPONRY.which are destined for the junk heap.What better way to get rid of their trash and yet get some fools to pay for it.Umno is the bloody fool.Saudara Ronnie is doing a darn good job sounding the alarm,each yime the evil Umno violate the well being of malaysians.Stick to the fact.Umno is evil and malaysians of all races on the right path must wake up and put an end to Umno.

  3. awangmamat Says:

    Not acquiring sophisticated weapons will not end corruption. The former is not the root cause of the latter.

    Do we need the Su-30MKM and the Scorpene SSK? A definite, “Yes!” Should all Malaysians should fight corruption? Off course. But not by leaving us weaker vis-a-vis other countries. Friendly neighbours become covetous when they feel they can get away with it.

  4. tamejin Says:

    i realy thing that we need to have sukhoi su 30 mkm, and scorpenr ssk?
    but why do i think so?
    of course to defence our own country lar,
    about corruption, well they will eventually will be burn in hell

  5. afterburner73 Says:

    Oh, when Singapore goes on a spending spree for its defence modernisation, it’s okay. It’s okay for them to have more than 90 F-16 Fighting Falcons and in the process of acquiring F-15 Eagles to beef up its air superiority arsenal. Tapi kita di Malaysia tak boleh? Kenapa pulak? I think the Sukhois are necessary. Tolong la berbangga sikit dengan negara. Jangan sampai this turns into something racial.

  6. frossonice Says:

    agreed with afterburner. look into wider perspective. jangan jadi katak bawah tempurung. the mig-29 & FA-18 is way older than SU30 mkm which can be considered 4th generation fighter. since our country does not recognised Israel, we have to source parts from other country and surely it will cost more money. unless u r okay with supporting Israel. 18 jets for is enough to man our airspace. we are not attacking anybody. think, 18 for a few billions is much better than 80 for hundreds of billions. if that happen, i’m gladly join you to criticised the government. and we do need submarines. which in this case, 2 is just not enough.

  7. izmael Says:

    I feel relieve we have the Su 30,Mig 29,F18 in our arsenal.Submaries a yes. Polish tanks, Russian missiles etc. Since we have a lot of natural resources in our surrounding shore to protect for the interest of all Malaysians, Malays,Chinese,Indians,dayaks,dusun,sakais,orang asli etc. When our country is being threaten, how on earth are we going to protect it or fight for with our F5s or Nuri copters. Maybe at that time our Opposition Leader Lim Kit Siang raised a question in Parliament, why did we spent more money to buy raptor or euro fighter or what ever question that again seems to be endless in intimidating what ever decision our government make. Well, if in the deal if there are corruption involved, hope those who did it would burn & be rotten in hell.

  8. andy Says:

    Indeed we need defenses but who we need to defense? Where are they? Or if there is necessary to defense, are these weapons enough to conquer a confliction, we have enough professional pilot? Or we need to use another billion to buy “foreign pilot”? Before they bought weapon, Singapore is rich enough for the whole citizen to stabilize their life. If the Malaysian taxpayers keep on contribute without any feedback to their life, no matter which kind of race, I believe no body could stand for a long term of poverty life? Until then will these “defense weapon” really use to defend invader? In other words, a country without centripetal force among the citizens, the country will collapse before been attacked. However, the jets are already a fact and our hero had been sent to space, we better think how to use these weapons to make it worthy.

  9. lekiu Says:

    As compared to Singapore, Thailand and to a certain extent Indonesia, the modernisation of our armed forces are highly unlikely to make them quake in their boots. Vietnam even has a potent SAM battery, the S300.

    The modernisation of our armed forces are necessary and timely.

    Thailand recently bought 12 Gripen and 2 AEW planes for USD 1.2 Billion, more expensive than our USD 900 Million purchase of 18 SU-30MKM and assortment of missiles. The SU-30MKM has better payload, greater range, same avionics as the Gripen, better manouverability than Gripen thanks to its TVC, better future than Gripen due to the big number of Flanker fleets in Asia.

    Singapore recently purchased a squadron of F-15s, several La Fayette Class FFGs, 2 more subs, and to ensure enough carnage in case of war, HIMARS. And if one bothers to check the US DoD report, Singapore bought additional 200 AIM120Ds, 200 AIM9X in ’05.

    Indonesia is doing the same as well, in August 2007 they have agreed to purchase USD 1 billion worth of arms from Russia.

    Thailand for reason best known to themselves, bought an aircraft carrier !

    I believe weapons spending is a sheer waste of resources, but having said that .. this is the reality of life that we live. Weapons spending is a necessity. Which is why any ToT, off set programme is a welcome addition.

    I remember during the Ambalat crisis we had with Indonesia, the Indonesians were sending surface vessels, several F16s in a show of force. Our Govertment was sane enough not to send our MiG-29s or FA-18s to counter Indonesia’s F16 or sending our Lekiu Class FFGs. We only sent a few small patrol boats there.

    The Pulau Batu Putih/Prada Branca episode with Singapore, well .. less sabre rattling but enough boats were sent that could lead to minor skirmishes.

    I remember 2-3 years ago, some Philippines Senator was making dumb threat of invading Sabah. He was later told by his colleague that their armed forces would be slaughtered by the Malaysian military had they attempted.

    Correct me if I am wrong, Thais, Indonesia and Singapore have had submarines more than 10 years ago. By now they would have an established submarine doctrine. We are just getting our toes wet in this Sub business.

    I wish we live in better times, in times of peace, not of fragile peace. That all apparatus of destruction is shipped to space and dumped as junk.

    I am not suggesting that Thais, Indonesia, Singapore, Philippines are our enemy, but they have constantly upgraded their defence capability and we need to do the same.

    I know it is is not nice to suppress any views, but some idiot out there would say that we are no match for US. If defence purchase is measured by whether a country can defend against US, no one will purchase arms since the defence spending of US is bigger than UK/Russia/China/France put together.

    My suggestion, if you need to check defence spending, we need to question the rationale for buying a particular type as oppose to some other type.

    Whether the Govt was wise to purchase SU-30MKM or whether it should have been the Sweedish Gripen or the French Rafale or US F15s. Whether instead of buying a Scorpene SSK, whether a Kilo Class sub would better serve our Navy. Whether PT91 is a better choice than say a LeClerc or a Leopard. Whether the Lekiu Class Block II is a better bet than say the French La Fayette Class.

  10. captain Says:

    well…we do need those new military hardware…its about time. like lekiu had said, the indonesia and singaporeans had been consistently upgraded their military. singapore bought 6 la fayette ffgs, which is in someway just a little more advance than our Lekiu class FFG. singapore bought a few more f-16, i think it is wise to bought those su-30s…

    about phillippines invading my home state…Lol, i couldnt agree more on that…going on full force with us is a big mistake for them…

  11. sukhoi30mkm Says:

    I can tell you the sukhoi 30 mkm is a good buy.It easily outmatched the f/a18 e/f superhornet which was also considered by the malaysian government.

    Malaysia need a multi-role air superiority fighter and IMO there is only a handful of fighters which can match up to the sukhoi 30 mkm.

    Besides that the gov included maritime capabilities(anti ships missiles and the ability to launch the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile) into the “rojak” sukhoi so it can now serve the role of the superhornets(guarding the malaysian waters) and its a worthy opponent to counter singapore’s version of the advance f15 strike eagles(which is not a big prob since the sukhois are considered to be superior)

    and the most important issue is that Russia might be more willing to sell Malaysia better armaments than the U.S which might include BVR missiles.

    and..we did a barter trade with the russians. aircraft for palm oil. who else wan Malaysian palm oils?? the EU?? LOL

  12. Malik Says:

    Anybody who dosent support the weopon buildup in our country is a coward. U only know how to talk but when the time realy comes and our nation needs you, you always always let it down. Go buy ur airticket and migrate to another country that wants you, you coward. By da way we are far behind the singaporean in terms of battle or combat readiness but they never regard their neighbuouring countries as enemies. Think about it.. Pardon my english.

  13. nahafi Says:

    to think of it, yes, we do need the submarine n also the jets…
    but the trade that is sending our first angkasawan, though it is a very great idea, but to think of it again and again, do we really need it?

    can anybody tell me what we get from it?
    some respect? or recognition? or what?
    do u still think that ALL OF THE MALAYSIANS get something from it?
    yes, myb the experience that we can share and can burnt up “again” the MALAYSIA BOLEH spirit that seems to fade out since we didnt get any recognition lately, but still, did it really aspired u alot?

    to me, yes, it is?
    but, really it worth the rm95 million money(as mention by najib) that we spent on it?

    imagine that money, how much of it, is actually?
    the money we can send those intelect ppl in malaysia to any other world’s best institute, in us, russia, china, japan or u just name it, to get the knowledge, not only on the space things only i guess, but in all field, which, even worth than what we had this angkasawan thing.

    or sponsored our most smartest student to go to Harvard, oxford, or where ever the best, and we could get much more, even thousand times worthier than this program…

    well, manusia kan, pantang lihat ade benda yg boleh dia amek untong, hak2 rakyat yg byr cukai semua dia dah x pkr da…

    nih, kami rakyat swak nih, masih ramai yg terkontang-kanting dok terhinjut-hinjut berlari mengikut arus pemodenan malaysia, sekolah jauh, air electrik masih xda, jalan raya xde, belum nak kate konputer and those more hightech gadjet lg la…

    apela manusia…
    nih, yg byk menyumbang duit kearah pembelian or at least i believe kerajaan akan get the money to buy those jets and submarine, mane lagi klu bukan dari duit minyak negeri sarawak…

    ape la naseb….

  14. Sifu. Says:

    Kau ni bodoh ke berita tak sampai kat rumah kau nahafi? Kita tak kuar duit pun wat hantar angkasawan tu. Ianya merupakan program timbal balik hasil pembelian pesawat Sukhoi 30 MKM dan ditanggung sepenuhnya oleh kerajaan rusia (in my opinion is the most powerfull multirole fighter aircraft in this region) Orang macam kau ni jenis yang pandai bercakap je. Semua perkara yang dikaitkan dengan pembelian senjata merupakan pembaziran. Direct nego salahla. Rasuah la. Salah guna kuasala. Tapi kenapa waktu merdeka tak kirala wakil rakyat BN KE PR ke tahunya melihat ke langit dan berkat ” waaaa…” dengan rasa kagum bila melihat fly past pesawat – pesawat kita tu? Hello! Spanyol pun beli beli Scorpene dengan harga yang sama dengan kita la wei! India murah pasal dia buat sendiri. Bab komisyen pun dah diperjelaskan. The best way of diplomacy is to talk softly but always carry a big stick. Kalu dah cakap baik – baik tak faham ape lagi ketuk je la dia! Tula dia gunannya perbelanjaan yang besar untuk memodenkan angkatan bersenjata kita!!! Terengganu pun ada minyak bang…… Tak kecoh pun….

  15. Malik Says:

    Betul tu. Saja nak cari isu menjatuhkan Najib.. U go man. Dont worry about this guys. Ur doing a good job already. Orang ni hanya pandai mencarik kesalahan orang lain je. Saja nak jadi populer kononnya berjuang utuk kepentingan rakyat. Cuba tgk kat selangor. Masa jadi pembangkang kritik sana kritik sini. Sekarang bila dah tau susah jadi kerajaan marah plak bila orang kritik dia. Sometime u have to do a little wrong for the greater good. People of this sort only knows how to complaint. By the way there should be new negotiations for the procurement of a nother squodron of those magnificent sukhois. The Singaporeans is going to shit in their pants this time. Always blabering in their forums that our armed forces are nothing but crap huh? W’ill show u what crap is when our jets are dropping bombs over ur head!!!! Return Batu Puteh island!!! Its our!!!

  16. tr Says:

    Hi. Ronnie liu speakinhg here. For me all this jets buisness is just a waste of goverment funds. Why waste the people money? Why dont we give the people free water so they can waste more water? Why dont we give the power to the people and ignore all the laws? Why dont we do more and more street demos becouse its seems to be so much fun? Why dont we ram the FRU with a car and put all the blame on the police for being to hard even though somebody just ramed them with a car? Yes lets do that….. Who do we want to fight anyway… Yes.. We must not buy all this weopons becouse it seems to offensive by our neighbouring countries.. Eventhough their armed forces are far more advance than ours we must never follow in their misrable path.. This is a community reminder by ur friendly neighberhood superhero Ronnie Liu YB of Pandamaran.

  17. safian Says:

    The answer is yes, we definitely need it. In fact, 18 is not enough, we need way more than that. Unless of course we have some place else to run to if and god forbid something bad like a war should happen in the future.

  18. KingKong Says:

    The Formidable Class FFGs are far more advance than the lekiu.
    Using Phase Array Radar, Aster 15/30 and the Radar Absorbent Material etc. Most importantly its BMS Battle Management System and C4I

  19. F22 Raptor Says:

    Of course we need it, infact we need more than that. But, if we can produce them instead of buying, that would be even better investment. We can afford it – if we are willing to sacrifice. Would you?

  20. shahsukhoi j.b Says:

    hrp PM Najib bru sbg bks mntri pthanan fhm khndk wrga ATM dgn mnmbh bjet prthanan.kte prlu bbrpe Sq sukhoi lg mgkn Su 35?3-4 aewacs,frigat & korvet,helikopter tmpur tiger atau rooivalk,pnmbhan MBT PT91,kapal selam,artileri mdh grk spt caesar,sistem SAM prs tinggi,radar trbaru dn bnyk lg slps ekonomi pulih.demi survival keamanan brtrusan ngara sgala wang rkyt yg dgnakan adalh brbaloi dn xplu dprtikaikan trutama bdk2 pmbngkang dn kpala2 mreka yg sbnrnya fhm akn kpntgn prthanan ngara ttpi sngaja buat2 xfhm demi kpntgn politik smpt dn kolot.so as malaysian i always support for our military modernisation as long its reliable depend on global politic situation.its not only give an advantage to our ATMs but also a insurance/assurance/allowance etc. hahahaha!! before the 1st bullet been shoot either from us our enemy.thx..
    shahsukhoi@yahoo.com

  21. shahsukhoi j.b Says:

    hrp PM Najib bru sbg bks mntri pthanan fhm khndk wrga ATM dgn mnmbh bjet prthanan.kte prlu bbrpe Sq sukhoi lg mgkn Su 35?3-4 aewacs,frigat & korvet,helikopter tmpur tiger atau rooivalk,pnmbhan MBT PT91,kapal selam,artileri mdh grk spt caesar,sistem SAM prs tinggi,radar trbaru dn bnyk lg slps ekonomi pulih.demi survival keamanan brtrusan ngara sgala wang rkyt yg dgnakan adalh brbaloi dn xplu dprtikaikan trutama bdk2 pmbngkang dn kpala2 mreka yg sbnrnya fhm akn kpntgn prthanan ngara ttpi sngaja buat2 xfhm demi kpntgn politik smpt dn kolot.so as malaysian i always support for our military modernisation as long its reliable depend on global politic situation.its not only give an advantage to our ATMs but also a insurance/assurance/allowance etc. hahahaha!! before the 1st bullet been shoot either from us or our enemy.thx..
    sorry for correction n bad english..

  22. running man arsenal vietnam Says:

    Appreciation to my father who shared with me concerning this blog, this blog is in fact awesome.

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